Growing

[Rosie]

In Bible class today we talked about learning and growing and how correction is a part of that.  And in my journal I'm supposed to write of a time when I got corrected and how it helped me grow.  Then to I have to decide if God corrects me cause of him being our father.  Then if I do I have to say how he corrected me and how it made me grow.
This will be impossible to do I think.  But do you think God corrects us?  And getting corrected don't got to mean getting punished right?  
Has God ever corrected you?  And don't he use other people to teach us?

[Libby]

I believe God puts people in our lives for a reason and one reason can be to teach us how to live more faithfully. I believe God corrects us by using our conscience. If our conscience is guilty it encourages us to do something differently.

[Tatiana]

God doesn't have to correct or punish us. He put parents here so he wouldn't have to deal with it.  


I had a teacher when I was in kindy or year 1 and she had me believing that I could make God cry when I was naughty.  God doesn't cry.  Why should he?  He will get to have the last word and all the revenge he wants when I die.

There's a lot about God that doesn't make sense.

[Addy]

I know there are some people who believe when something bad happens, it happens because God is punishing them for doing something wrong.  I don't believe that.  I believe God allows natural consequences to happen to teach us so if I tease a dog and get bit, God didn't tell that dog to bite me but he allowed it to happen to teach me to be nice.
I don't think there's any place in Scripture where Jesus scolds or punishes a child.  He's all about forgiveness.  I don't think he gave us parents to punish us.

[quinn]

A book I would highly recommend is "Tired of trying to measure up..." written by Jeff Vanvonderen

I was brought up in a belief system that tore us down. We are unworthy, undeserving. Punishments were an expected part of growing up. Grace was non-existent. This book gave me a whole new perspective on things.

[charity]

God corrects me all the time.  I have a selfish disposition sometimes.  
I believe God uses our parents to correct us and to teach us.  Some people in my church do believe that getting sick or other bad things happen as a punishment from God for not obeying him.  I don't think my parents always believe that.  Sometimes they do.  They believe God sent Covid as a punishment for how the world is today.  They believed it more strongly when it seemed like kids wouldn't get it.  They don't believe God punishes small children.
I don't think God punishes us that way but I will respect what my parents tell me to believe.  My parents say they are instructed by God to spank us as correction and I believe them.  My father sometimes says him and my mom put a fire on our behinds today to save us from an eternity of fire.  Our parents are God's voice and hands to teach us, correct us and punish us.

[laurensobuf]

Jun 11, 2021 15:32:36 GMT -5 charity said:

God corrects me all the time.  I have a selfish disposition sometimes.  
I believe God uses our parents to correct us and to teach us.  Some people in my church do believe that getting sick or other bad things happen as a punishment from God for not obeying him.  I don't think my parents always believe that.  Sometimes they do.  They believe God sent Covid as a punishment for how the world is today.  They believed it more strongly when it seemed like kids wouldn't get it.  They don't believe God punishes small children.
I don't think God punishes us that way but I will respect what my parents tell me to believe.  My parents say they are instructed by God to spank us as correction and I believe them.  My father sometimes says him and my mom put a fire on our behinds today to save us from an eternity of fire.  Our parents are God's voice and hands to teach us, correct us and punish us.

Charity,

I don’t believe God sends disease or disasters to punish people. If that were the case, why would people who lived to God’s word suffer, too? I would also point out that Covid very much affected young people, including infants. I don’t see God’s hand in that at all.

[charity]

I don't disagree with you.  I know God punished people in the Old Testament by having bad things happen so my parents believe some bad things happen as a punishment.  They thought Covid was God's punishment but they stopped telling us that when kids started getting sick from it.  They don't believe God will punish a child before they've reached the age of reason and can be baptized. 

[Deleted]

I'm not Roman but the Roman Catholic theologian (St) Thomas Aquinas put it very well. This is my paraphrase... he is talking about age group 15-25.

"A thrashing is absolutely not demanded by God as Christ died for our sins.
Nor is a thrashing necessary to repent and gain absolution.
But a thrashing will put the miscreant in a better mindset to recieve that absolution."

I think my teenage sons, especially the younger one, might use more modern language
(again my paraphrase) "A paddling helps me forgive myself"

[Rosie]

That is very complicated ok?
When I tried to kill myself and then come home and stuff my mom sort of wasn't acting towards me the same cause when I would do something like sass her or fight with Ruby she didn't do stuff she normal would so I felt bad cause I thought she was afraid of me. It wasn't cause I felt that I wasn't forgiven you know.  The thing about my mom is she does always forgive me and my dad to and that is hard you know, to be bad and still have them love me just as much. I don't know. I just know that I get forgiven and so I forgive myself but the hard part is I feel bad that I needed to be forgiven.
How does a spanking make you forgive yourself?
Isn't spanking more like the other person got there revenge?
I don't know but I think the self forgiveness comes more from the talking and the hugging you know?
The punishing part isn't it more like knowing they care enough about you to care about how your going to grow up?

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2021 16:47:54 GMT -5 Rosie said:

That is very complicated ok?
When I tried to kill myself and then come home and stuff my mom sort of wasn't acting towards me the same cause when I would do something like sass her or fight with Ruby she didn't do stuff she normal would so I felt bad cause I thought she was afraid of me. It wasn't cause I felt that I wasn't forgiven you know.  The thing about my mom is she does always forgive me and my dad to and that is hard you know, to be bad and still have them love me just as much. I don't know. I just know that I get forgiven and so I forgive myself but the hard part is I feel bad that I needed to be forgiven.
How does a spanking make you forgive yourself?
Isn't spanking more like the other person got there revenge?
I don't know but I think the self forgiveness comes more from the talking and the hugging you know?
The punishing part isn't it more like knowing they care enough about you to care about how your going to grow up?

Rosie you are correct that this is both complex and complicated: not least because God made us all unique.

My heart goes out to you...

People think my two sons are identical twins: they are not. They were born 18m apart and are VERY different.

My 16yo is a risk taking adrenaline junky who regards corpiral correction as an occupational hazard. An occasional tap on the bottom is very unpleasant but offers the opportunity to pay the price and move on. If his offending does not come to light he will tejoice that he's got away with it.

His younger brother finds it hard to find peace in his heart if he feels the pressing weightvof guilt. Somehow he prefers the stinging bottom to the stinging heart. I worry that he will not respond well when spanking is outgrown.

[Deleted]

Apologies: predictive text!
I CAN spell: the phone cannot!

[Kim]

Henry, how are you, as his parent, trying to ensure that your younger son will be able to assuage his guilt?  We have such a short time with them that you'll blink and he'll be a grown man who will have to deal with guilt in a different way.  He has to learn how to do this for himself rather than rely upon you to do it for him.  Have you considered taking spanking out of the equation now so you can help him explore different ways to deal with his guilt?
Rosie is my sensitive one.  She will beat herself up over everything but she doesn't need to be spanked to forgive herself.  If that were the case, Rob and I would have stopped spanking her the minute we realized that.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2021 8:04:53 GMT -5 Kim said:

Henry, how are you, as his parent, trying to ensure that your younger son will be able to assuage his guilt?  We have such a short time with them that you'll blink and he'll be a grown man who will have to deal with guilt in a different way.  He has to learn how to do this for himself rather than rely upon you to do it for him.  Have you considered taking spanking out of the equation now so you can help him explore different ways to deal with his guilt?
Rosie is my sensitive one.  She will beat herself up over everything but she doesn't need to be spanked to forgive herself.  If that were the case, Rob and I would have stopped spanking her the minute we realized that.

There is no simple answer and I wish I had one. Younger son has many fewer spankings than his older brother. So it is a very rare event.

I am quietly working with the youth pastor at church to propel him to the concept of repentance and forgiveness..and hope that with maturity that he will emerge from this chrysalis of comfort.
As it is, their mother's death hasnt made it easy, but honestly I think hecis better adjusted than many adults who wallow in guilt and self pity.

[Deleted]

He is...
Sorry overactive spell corrector plus poor phone signal.