leslie
Adult Member
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by leslie on Dec 30, 2021 12:21:01 GMT -5
Over the last century, many atrocious war crimes were committed by soldiers. The Generals were not put on trial, for, they did not condone the evil, nor, were they there. Perhaps God is in the same position, he has a whole universe to care for. He may be described as omnipresent, but for all we know, he may even have other planets to watch over. A God who creates such beauty as nature, and new born babies, cannot be all bad. Sometimes, one can analyse too much, perhaps we should give him a break.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vince on Dec 30, 2021 13:16:48 GMT -5
Why are you a atheist?
When that whole thing that happened to me when I thought that person was who she said but who's my imaginary friend now I kind of felt like God wasn't real and was thinking more how my dad does. You know with his saying he needs more proof. I don't know. Me and Mr. W talked and I got to understanding that my faith is totally separate from that persons faith so I can't let what somebody else does make me believe or not believe.
Something that is kind of hard to understand is how come there has to be so much violence around everything. Even for Christmas time all those innocent little babies got murdered. If we are made in the image of God how can we do such terrible horrible things? If God is love and we are made in his image why aren't we loving to others?
Something I was talking to Mr. W about is I think there was a translation mistake in the Bible because I don't think God is a loving father. He don't act like one so I think he is just a ruler or King and we just like to think he's like a father. It's been a long journey for me, starting from Catholic to Baptist to Methodist "preacher's wife" to agnostic to atheist. Ironically, biblical study seems to be what started me on the road to "none" - learning about form and redaction criticism (in Catholic high school no less), the Didache, the process of the construction of the New Testament (from oral tradition to written tradition to the purging of various heresies to the development of the canon), the development timeline of the Tanakh (what Christians call the Old Testament). And then comparing them across various faith traditions and legends of other ancient civilizations. Before I was married the church I was attending had a study of a book by theologian Marcus Borg called "Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time", it was a bit mind-blowing, introducing ideas like the Jesus Seminar and separating classical antiquity historic writings from writings that were more intended to convey ideas rather than historic facts. The concept that a passage from a religious text could be "true" but not necessarily "factual". Anyway, like I said, it was a long journey with a lot of twists and turns, this was just the start. In the end I think I couldn't reconcile a lot of conflicting information and experiences in my head. And the journey continues. |
|
mandy
Teen Member
Posts: 4,413 
|
Post by mandy on Dec 30, 2021 13:51:15 GMT -5
Then do you believe when you die there is nothing? Tiff says people only made it all up because they were afraid of death.
|
|
Addy
Teen Member
Posts: 6,706
|
Post by Addy on Dec 30, 2021 17:03:16 GMT -5
Over the last century, many atrocious war crimes were committed by soldiers. The Generals were not put on trial, for, they did not condone the evil, nor, were they there. Perhaps God is in the same position, he has a whole universe to care for. He may be described as omnipresent, but for all we know, he may even have other planets to watch over. A God who creates such beauty as nature, and new born babies, cannot be all bad. Sometimes, one can analyse too much, perhaps we should give him a break.
Do you believe in Hell? |
|
|
|
Post by Vince on Dec 30, 2021 17:43:05 GMT -5
Then do you believe when you die there is nothing? Tiff says people only made it all up because they were afraid of death. That depends on whether you believe there is there a soul or essence that can live on in non-human form. The idea of some sort of life after death (whether physical or spiritual) is not limited to Christianity - Buddhism has karma and the cycle of rebirth, various Native American tribes have different beliefs and traditions about death and the spirits of the dead, Shinto has the principle of Kami (spirits of things, animals, and people) that are part of nature. I think we kind of build the details of our own belief systems through syncretism (that is, merging beliefs from various faith systems we have been exposed to, whether they are Christian, animist, cults, mythologies, etc.) Who's to say it's not like the Land of the Remembered in The Book of Life, where as long as your loved ones remember you after you die, your spirit continues to live on? I'm not a nihilist; I don't think that life is meaningless. Being atheist just means that you don't believe in deities, or supernatural beings with superpowers. |
|
|
|
Post by Vince on Dec 30, 2021 17:51:32 GMT -5
I don't think the real question is if God is good or bad but that he's supposed to be love. If we're made in his image, how can we spread so much hate if we're made in the image of love. I take it on faith that God is a loving and good God but I'm not sure how I feel about being made in his image when mankind isn't exactly loving and good. I also don't know about God being a Father, at least not in the sense that we understand father.
Do you believe in Hell? Voltaire once posited, "Si Dieu nous a faits à son image, nous le lui avons bien rendu." (If God created us in his image, we certainly paid him back). Others have paraphrased him a bit: "God created man in His own image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment." |
|
leslie
Adult Member
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by leslie on Dec 30, 2021 18:04:28 GMT -5
Over the last century, many atrocious war crimes were committed by soldiers. The Generals were not put on trial, for, they did not condone the evil, nor, were they there. Perhaps God is in the same position, he has a whole universe to care for. He may be described as omnipresent, but for all we know, he may even have other planets to watch over. A God who creates such beauty as nature, and new born babies, cannot be all bad. Sometimes, one can analyse too much, perhaps we should give him a break.
Do you believe in Hell?
I suppose the real person to blame for it all, is Eve. The world went into a spin of trouble once she bit on that apple. The term father is a generic one, not to be confused with our birth fathers. Catholic priests are termed `father', because they are guides. Faith is a difficult concept; we all struggle at times, but without it, there is no hope for the future. We have no trouble, in having faith in doctors; but, are their healing hands not really an instrument of God? As to Hell, no, I do not believe for one moment that such a Hades exists. I believe Hell is created here on earth. Those who do not believe in a God or Heaven, or are serious sinners, may be lost in limbo for centuries, before being returned to earth for another chance. Of course, we will not find out the truth, until Gabriel takes us on that final journey. I do strongly believe that another adventure follows this life. Whether it is reincarnation, or resting in a tranquil place, humans are far too intelligent to vanish into oblivion. God willing, you will have another 60 or 70 years ahead of you to contemplate such profound thoughts. During those years, you will witness many terrible things, but I urge you to look at the good things here on earth, of which, there are many. You will eventually decide whether religion has a place in your heart, there is no hurry for an answer, it will come when you are ready. Meanwhile, enjoy the many good things, and wonderful people that surround your life.
|
|
|
|
Post by laurensobuf on Dec 30, 2021 21:15:03 GMT -5
I don't think the real question is if God is good or bad but that he's supposed to be love. If we're made in his image, how can we spread so much hate if we're made in the image of love. I take it on faith that God is a loving and good God but I'm not sure how I feel about being made in his image when mankind isn't exactly loving and good. I also don't know about God being a Father, at least not in the sense that we understand father.
Do you believe in Hell? Voltaire once posited, "Si Dieu nous a faits à son image, nous le lui avons bien rendu." (If God created us in his image, we certainly paid him back). Others have paraphrased him a bit: "God created man in His own image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment." OK, dude.I officially nominate you as our resident theologian. I remember bringing Hans Kung into our house when I was going to my Jesuit college. My mom was buds with the associate pastor at the church and he about had a stroke when he saw On Being A Christian lying around. |
|
|
|
Post by Vince on Dec 30, 2021 21:25:15 GMT -5
Voltaire once posited, "Si Dieu nous a faits à son image, nous le lui avons bien rendu." (If God created us in his image, we certainly paid him back). Others have paraphrased him a bit: "God created man in His own image, and man, being a gentleman, returned the compliment." OK, dude.I officially nominate you as our resident theologian. I remember bringing Hans Kung into our house when I was going to my Jesuit college. My mom was buds with the associate pastor at the church and he about had a stroke when he saw On Being A Christian lying around. Haha, you should see the bookshelves in our house - just lined up next to the TV in the living room there's probably five different bibles, several on the enneagram, the gospel of Thomas, books by Anne Lamott, Frederick Buechner, and Barbara Brown Taylor, "Lamb" by Christopher Moore, a series on the seven deadly sins, a rewriting of the Song of Songs, and some Taoist books for good measure. 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by laurensobuf on Dec 30, 2021 21:42:57 GMT -5
Was there ever a point when you considered a clerical calling in any of the religions you were a part of?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vince on Dec 30, 2021 23:48:44 GMT -5
Was there ever a point when you considered a clerical calling in any of the religions you were a part of? When I was 5 or 6 my mom would put a polka-dotted sheet over the clothesline to make a tent in the backyard and I would say Mass, using a tv table as an altar. I already knew all the rubrics by heart. Spent an evening having dinner with the nuns in first grade, and spent the night in the rectory in 2nd or 3rd grade. In 4th or 5th grade there was a test in religion class where we could get one point of extra credit for each book of the Bible we could name. I got a 145 on the test. I was a weird kid. There was talk for a little bit about me going to St. John Vianney Prep in New Orleans for high school; it was a feeder for Notre Dame Seminary. But it never really materialized. The interest in joining the ministry dried up, but I kept my inquisitive nature about theological stuff. I probably picked it up from my mother who had a cousin her age who became a nun (back when it was still common for large Catholic families to reserve one of their children for the clerical life. When we lived in New Orleans, she sort of operated a ministry to priests. She took the deacons who came to our parish under her wing and about once a month we would have a priest over for dinner. I learned a lot from them - how to shoot the moon playing hearts, how to squeeze an orange peel at a candle to make the flame blow up, how to order cocktails... The two deacons we had the closest relationship with are now a bishop and an archbishop (he was a "Father What-a-Waste" - tall, dark, and handsome, graduated summa cum laude from law school before going to seminary) Ms. Vince, when she was still an active pastor, used to take me as her ringer to any meeting that involved deep theological discussions; she told me I put her seminary education to shame. |
|
|
|
Post by scarlette on Dec 31, 2021 0:33:31 GMT -5
I have a great uncle who is a Priest. I think his is a sad story because I think he was and is in love with a woman who he met at one of the churches he was assigned to. He's a Franciscan Priest and she was part of the Secular Order of Franciscans so he was her spiritual advisor. It wasn't a case of the Thornbirds because I can't imagine him being anything but chaste. He takes his vows very seriously. The sad and unfair part of this is he was put in seminary at the ripe old age of 13 as was the practice then. He was that child that was sacrificed (my opinion) for the church.
|
|
Rosie
Teen Member
Step out of the sun if you keep getting burned
Posts: 8,672
|
Post by Rosie on Dec 31, 2021 10:43:25 GMT -5
Why are you a atheist?
When that whole thing that happened to me when I thought that person was who she said but who's my imaginary friend now I kind of felt like God wasn't real and was thinking more how my dad does. You know with his saying he needs more proof. I don't know. Me and Mr. W talked and I got to understanding that my faith is totally separate from that persons faith so I can't let what somebody else does make me believe or not believe.
Something that is kind of hard to understand is how come there has to be so much violence around everything. Even for Christmas time all those innocent little babies got murdered. If we are made in the image of God how can we do such terrible horrible things? If God is love and we are made in his image why aren't we loving to others?
Something I was talking to Mr. W about is I think there was a translation mistake in the Bible because I don't think God is a loving father. He don't act like one so I think he is just a ruler or King and we just like to think he's like a father. It's been a long journey for me, starting from Catholic to Baptist to Methodist "preacher's wife" to agnostic to atheist. Ironically, biblical study seems to be what started me on the road to "none" - learning about form and redaction criticism (in Catholic high school no less), the Didache, the process of the construction of the New Testament (from oral tradition to written tradition to the purging of various heresies to the development of the canon), the development timeline of the Tanakh (what Christians call the Old Testament). And then comparing them across various faith traditions and legends of other ancient civilizations. Before I was married the church I was attending had a study of a book by theologian Marcus Borg called "Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time", it was a bit mind-blowing, introducing ideas like the Jesus Seminar and separating classical antiquity historic writings from writings that were more intended to convey ideas rather than historic facts. The concept that a passage from a religious text could be "true" but not necessarily "factual". Anyway, like I said, it was a long journey with a lot of twists and turns, this was just the start. In the end I think I couldn't reconcile a lot of conflicting information and experiences in my head. And the journey continues.
Are you still looking for the truth? I didn't understand a lot of what you said here so I had to ask my mom and dad  I think maybe it would be interesting to read that book about Meeting Jesus Again but I'm still struggling with meeting him the first time. Why does God got to be so confusing?
|
|
leslie
Adult Member
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by leslie on Dec 31, 2021 11:41:55 GMT -5
The book sounds most interesting. We must remember, that biblical stories were written over many generations. Some of the stories got exaggerated which causes a degree of confusion. When the dead sea scrolls were discovered, a lot more light was thrown on the original bible story. At times, it is difficult to cherry pick what we believe, and what we doubt. The important thing, is to hold our faith and believe in a supreme being. Scientists and philosophers, argue that we and the earth were formed purely by nature. But the truth of the matter, is that we don't know, we alone must decide our course in life.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vince on Dec 31, 2021 13:30:11 GMT -5
It's been a long journey for me, starting from Catholic to Baptist to Methodist "preacher's wife" to agnostic to atheist. Ironically, biblical study seems to be what started me on the road to "none" - learning about form and redaction criticism (in Catholic high school no less), the Didache, the process of the construction of the New Testament (from oral tradition to written tradition to the purging of various heresies to the development of the canon), the development timeline of the Tanakh (what Christians call the Old Testament). And then comparing them across various faith traditions and legends of other ancient civilizations. Before I was married the church I was attending had a study of a book by theologian Marcus Borg called "Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time", it was a bit mind-blowing, introducing ideas like the Jesus Seminar and separating classical antiquity historic writings from writings that were more intended to convey ideas rather than historic facts. The concept that a passage from a religious text could be "true" but not necessarily "factual". Anyway, like I said, it was a long journey with a lot of twists and turns, this was just the start. In the end I think I couldn't reconcile a lot of conflicting information and experiences in my head. And the journey continues.
Are you still looking for the truth? I didn't understand a lot of what you said here so I had to ask my mom and dad I think maybe it would be interesting to read that book about Meeting Jesus Again but I'm still struggling with meeting him the first time. Why does God got to be so confusing?
If you're interested, you might want to check out this video from Useful Charts. It's long for a YouTube video (23 minutes) but it talks from a purely historical perspective about who wrote the gospels and when, based on what biblical scholars have discovered. |
|
I think maybe it would be interesting to read that book about Meeting Jesus Again but I'm still struggling with meeting him the first time. Why does God got to be so confusing?